I share your feelings. It's all consuming and I try my best to not feel overwhelmed by the feeling of "evil" that has overtaken the world again. I'm reading Mary Oliver and the biography of Tove Jansson as n reprieve, though she was born during the 1st WW lived through the Finnish civil wars and the WWII and made a lot of cartoons criticising the wars. So I'm reminded that people survive things and light comes through, although I'm also having a feeling that people never learn and history keeps repeating itself. I also thought back of the 90's in South Africa and how it took the leaders that we had with international pressure to make a decision and reach an agreement rather than go to war for longer. It could've gone the other way but people decided to not.People can decide to not. So the West's support for Israel ecomomically and (as you've written so well) with language they use is blood on their hands, because a lack of support could bring leaders to different decisions. It's also language being simplified that's exasperating the problem - one is trying to criticize a government's choice and then called anti-Semitic, which shuts down the conversation. It's been a hard week.
It has been a very hard week and surely only the uncaring is unscathed at this stage. You have made good points about how support or lack of it can make paths diverge, can influence choices. What Hamas did was abhorrent. Israel's unrestrained response is abhorrent. I excuse nothing. I want language to be clear enough to say, 'I condemn violence' without implying I am anti-anyone. I realise that in such fraught times, this is not a simple want.
Indeed. It's absurd that can't be against bombing and violence without somehow being condemned to choosing sides. I completely agree. It feels like all this escalated violence could've been avoided if other choices were made before hand. I hate war and bombs, no matter what side it comes from. Violence has literally never resolved a problem ever without leaving a string of other worst problems. I keep thinking of the two Cranberry songs War Child and Zombie in these days.
Gabe and I have been talking about this a lot in the last week, too. Having many Jewish friends and living in a largely Jewish suburb, and Gabe having a Jewish psychoanalyst, we feel unable to say anything on Facebook or in person. We even lower our voices if we’re discussing it at the shops or just postpone the chat until we get home.
Yesterday we met a Jewish friend for lunch and it was all she wanted to talk about but I had to keep shutting her down and changing the subject because neither of us share her opinion but we didn’t want to hurt her by engaging in what she would probably see as whataboutism. In an ideal world I would have given my opinion and told her it’s best we don’t continue talking about it but I knew that would leave her feeling more hurt than if we gave nothing away. But then I felt like shit for not trying to persuade her to see the other side.
I know so many people who feel the same. I appreciate you for being brave enough to speak publicly about this. (I know my comment is public but it’s not quite the same as posting on my own FB page.) I don’t have the energy to deal with the consequences of sticking my head above the parapet!
People are in so much pain. And it is not just the pain of now. It is the pain of centuries, and the pain of living memory. When we are not in the direct line of fire, and when we have people we love on both sides of a conflict, and when both sides of a conflict bring enormous historical pain, what is our role?
Yes, I hadn’t formulated that thought fully but you’re right that it’s the pain of centuries and that’s why it feels so hopeless. So much pain on all sides - too much to be washed away. I wanted to speak my friend’s pain away but that wasn’t going to be possible even if I agreed with every opinion she holds. So I hugged her tight and hoped that was enough to let her know I understand her pain and wish it gone.
Meeting ugly behaviour with kindness is usually unexpected and can do a lot to reduce heat in any conflict. I learnt that from raising my kids. Not saying that one should always turn the other cheek, of course. It’s just ever clearer to me as I get older that I don’t want to participate in the perpetuation of divisions that serve nobody.
So do I (if we mean the same thing by 'clean prose'). I have never read any of his books. I see he has many. I feel like you might have opened a new reading path for me. Thank you.
I share your feelings. It's all consuming and I try my best to not feel overwhelmed by the feeling of "evil" that has overtaken the world again. I'm reading Mary Oliver and the biography of Tove Jansson as n reprieve, though she was born during the 1st WW lived through the Finnish civil wars and the WWII and made a lot of cartoons criticising the wars. So I'm reminded that people survive things and light comes through, although I'm also having a feeling that people never learn and history keeps repeating itself. I also thought back of the 90's in South Africa and how it took the leaders that we had with international pressure to make a decision and reach an agreement rather than go to war for longer. It could've gone the other way but people decided to not.People can decide to not. So the West's support for Israel ecomomically and (as you've written so well) with language they use is blood on their hands, because a lack of support could bring leaders to different decisions. It's also language being simplified that's exasperating the problem - one is trying to criticize a government's choice and then called anti-Semitic, which shuts down the conversation. It's been a hard week.
It has been a very hard week and surely only the uncaring is unscathed at this stage. You have made good points about how support or lack of it can make paths diverge, can influence choices. What Hamas did was abhorrent. Israel's unrestrained response is abhorrent. I excuse nothing. I want language to be clear enough to say, 'I condemn violence' without implying I am anti-anyone. I realise that in such fraught times, this is not a simple want.
Indeed. It's absurd that can't be against bombing and violence without somehow being condemned to choosing sides. I completely agree. It feels like all this escalated violence could've been avoided if other choices were made before hand. I hate war and bombs, no matter what side it comes from. Violence has literally never resolved a problem ever without leaving a string of other worst problems. I keep thinking of the two Cranberry songs War Child and Zombie in these days.
Gabe and I have been talking about this a lot in the last week, too. Having many Jewish friends and living in a largely Jewish suburb, and Gabe having a Jewish psychoanalyst, we feel unable to say anything on Facebook or in person. We even lower our voices if we’re discussing it at the shops or just postpone the chat until we get home.
Yesterday we met a Jewish friend for lunch and it was all she wanted to talk about but I had to keep shutting her down and changing the subject because neither of us share her opinion but we didn’t want to hurt her by engaging in what she would probably see as whataboutism. In an ideal world I would have given my opinion and told her it’s best we don’t continue talking about it but I knew that would leave her feeling more hurt than if we gave nothing away. But then I felt like shit for not trying to persuade her to see the other side.
I know so many people who feel the same. I appreciate you for being brave enough to speak publicly about this. (I know my comment is public but it’s not quite the same as posting on my own FB page.) I don’t have the energy to deal with the consequences of sticking my head above the parapet!
People are in so much pain. And it is not just the pain of now. It is the pain of centuries, and the pain of living memory. When we are not in the direct line of fire, and when we have people we love on both sides of a conflict, and when both sides of a conflict bring enormous historical pain, what is our role?
Yes, I hadn’t formulated that thought fully but you’re right that it’s the pain of centuries and that’s why it feels so hopeless. So much pain on all sides - too much to be washed away. I wanted to speak my friend’s pain away but that wasn’t going to be possible even if I agreed with every opinion she holds. So I hugged her tight and hoped that was enough to let her know I understand her pain and wish it gone.
One (I) wonders what the useful response is. Tenderness feels like the best option. And it defies the violence in speech and deed we see all around.
Meeting ugly behaviour with kindness is usually unexpected and can do a lot to reduce heat in any conflict. I learnt that from raising my kids. Not saying that one should always turn the other cheek, of course. It’s just ever clearer to me as I get older that I don’t want to participate in the perpetuation of divisions that serve nobody.
Thank you for this. I am reading Apeirogon at the moment but it is so sad that I can’t manage more than a few pages at a time.
I have seen this book so often and never been tempted. Do you recommend it?
Yes! I find McCann a writer of “clean” prose and I quite like that style.
So do I (if we mean the same thing by 'clean prose'). I have never read any of his books. I see he has many. I feel like you might have opened a new reading path for me. Thank you.